POP Club Reunited: Healing, Friendship & Feeling Fobbed Off - Episode Transcript

Helen

Hi, I'm Helen, and this is Why Mums Don't Jump. Busting taboos about leaks and lumps after childbirth. All the stuff that happens to your pelvic floor that no one ever talks about: incontinence, prolapse, pelvic pain - problems that affect millions of women. One in three. I'm one of them.

I have a prolapse. My pelvic organs fell out of place after the birth of my second child. And if you had told me back then that I would be speaking about this stuff out loud, I would have told you to give your head a wobble.

Hello. Welcome back. It's episode six of season five and it's the one you've been waiting for. POP club is back!

Helen

Are they on now? Yeah you did it!

Jess

Yeah Yeah Yeah. Hi, guys.

Helen

Yes, we managed to sort out our technical challenges to have a really good catch up. So this is with Jess and Skye. Not their real names, just your favourite pseudonyms. And if you have no clue what I'm on about, then let me catch you up, because shortly after I started talking about prolapse on instagram in, like, 2018, a woman in Australia got in touch to say that she had a friend in Manchester, where I live, with a prolapse. And why didn't we meet up for coffee?Which is, you know, obviously a really weird thing to do, but for some reason I said yes. So we did, and she brought a friend. And our unofficial POP club was formed.

And we get to unload and laugh and cry with people who just get it. And after a while, I persuaded them to come on the podcast. And that episode inspired loads of other listeners to set up their own unofficial pop clubs around the country and around the world, where they meet for coffee or wine or walks. And I love it.

So that's POP club, and you're about to hear our third catch up after this.

Why Mums Don't Jump is sponsored by iMEDicare - Pelvic Health Naturally. IMEDicare provides devices or products for pelvic health that are safe and easy to use, helping you to manage your symptoms while you're on the way to recovery. Products like Lumana activewear - fitness leggings and running shorts that have absorbent underwear built-in, for protection from leaks. Whether that's wee or sweat or period blood or discharge. And the leggings have a phone pocket, which is music to my ears. You can find Lumana via the affiliate shop on the Why Mums Don't Jump website, where you'll also find a discount code. Thanks to the team at iMEDicare.

Without further ado, here is POP club 3 - the return of Skye and Jess.

Jess

I have got a good name for this podcast. Well, no, I haven't, but I've got the idea of a concept of what you should call it.

Helen

This episode?

Jess

Yes.

Helen

Okay, this will be good. Go on.

Jess

So the reason behind this is because I went to the hospital the other day for my gynae checkup that I've been chasing for ages. I'm gonna get that in. So, yeah, went to the hospital. Don't like going because obviously, who just likes to go to an appointment for something?

Helen

It's not.

Jess

It's not fun, is it? No. So I'm sitting in this waiting room. I don't know why, but something happened. Someone came in, and I just started getting a bit upset because last time I was there, got diagnosed with a third degree tear that I didn't know I had a. And also got forgotten. So I was a bit stressed anyway, so I was like. And they were like, oh, you're right. And then this woman must have been just slightly older. She was like, so, have you got a prolapse? And I was like, yes. She was like, I've never met anyone with a prolapse that's like my age. So I was like, oh, my goodness, there's loads of us. I was like, there's so many!

Helen

Join the party.

Jess

I was like, join the party. I was like, yeah, but I think I was just gabbling a bit, as I do, because I was a bit emotional. And then I gave her my number and I talked about your podcast, but I'd not heard from her. So I was like, did I put my number in wrong? She was like, I'd love to meet up with you. So this podcast should be like, find that woman. But I don't know her name.

Helen

If you're listening woman from the hospital waiting room.

Jess

Yes.

Helen

Drop me an email and I will put you in touch.

Jess

Exactly. And I told her that she could come to our POP club.

Helen

Yeah, for sure. Maybe she had second thoughts?

Jess

Like, I don't think she did. I feel like. Well, maybe she did. But no, I was getting good prolapse vibes, though.

Helen

I love that you're still making all your prolapse friends everywhere you go.

Jess

Yeah, I love it. I know, exactly. Hey, you got to say yes, haven't you, to these things. Otherwise, you just got to be open and good things happen to you, regardless if it's a sad beginning story.

Helen

This is very true.

Jess

Yeah. See? Look at you. See?

Helen

Oh, look at me. I'm living my best life right now.

Jess

Living your best life. Exactly. Who knows what would have happened if you hadn't had a prolapse?

Helen

Oh, well, none of this would have happened, obviously. Also, I wouldn't met you guys, obviously. And now this is season five, can you believe, of the podcast? Which I hadn't even started when we met in whenever it was 2018 or, 2019, something like that. Quite a long time ago.

So shall we have a...should we have a little whip round and see how people are doing? Who wants to go first? Come on, Skye. I'm coming for you.

Jess

Sounds like she's rustling paper - she's got notes! She's very prepared!

Helen

I was trying to remember...last time we spoke, you. Let's have a full, like...so, when we first met five or six years ago, you had had some surgery to strengthen the posterior wall, and then. But you've always had, like, quite a lot of pain and stuff because you had the nerve damage when your son was born, didn't you?

Skye

Yeah, I mean, that's still going on, the pain, but it's. I think. I think over time, it has got less and less, over time. I think nerves do regenerate, don't they? But just really, really slowly.

Jess

So I think it's like a millimetre a year.

Skye

Yeah. So, you know, it's been a few years, and I think I maybe get, like, seven to ten days of, like, wait, it's pretty bad a month, but the rest of it's actually all right. You know, I'm doing all right, and those seven to ten days. I just kind of, you know, it just. It kind of does interfere with, like, you know, intimacy and my mood and fatigue and, you know, things like that when you're in pain, but you know...it's only for, like, a week to ten days, and then the rest of the month, I'm fine. And I just like...

Helen

And what. How would you describe what that's like, that pelvic pain?

Skye

Yeah. It's a bit like a tooth ache up my bum. That's kind of what it feels like, you know, in the back wall, you know?

Jess

You're not flossing enough.

Skye

Possibly! But, you know, honestly, like, I can't really complain, given I have to remind myself what it was like, you know, five, six, seven years ago and how much I have come on, you know? So it is getting much better. Thank you.

Helen

Yeah, but are you seeing anyone about it? No? You just like off the books now?

Skye

Yeah. Do you know what I'm so sick of, like, being interfered with by medical professionals? I'm just like, yeah, no, I'm done with that. I'm just. I just. I can manage it. I know what I need to do to manage it and I make sure I eat a really, like. Like, good diet so that I'm, you know, that helps with things, keeps me regular and that really does help if, you know, if I'm not. If I'm constipated in any way, things, you know, get really quite bad. So I do have to really be careful about what I'm eating. But it's fine. I've got used to it now, so I'll just kind of like, crack on. Yeah. It's just life, innit? I guess we've all got something, haven't we?

Helen

No, but seven to ten days a month still, after all this time and nothing really being done, particularly. It doesn't sit...I'm not very comfortable with this!

Skye

It is fine and it is, like I said, over the years, it is getting gradually a bit better and I'm still really active and I'm, like, upping my running and things like that. At the moment, I'm trying to get back to the level of fitness I had before I had my son. I could comfortably do ten kilometres before then. That's what I want to get to, really. I did nine kilometres this morning. Slowly, very, very slowly, and made sure I was near a toilet. But, you know, you know, I'm getting there and. Yeah, and that's good.

Helen

Why? Like. Sorry, you don't have to answer this. Near a toilet because of leaking wee or because of needing to poo?

Skye

Yeah, I just. I'm just really conscious...if I do need to go toilet, I want to just make sure I go, because if I have to hold it in for whatever reason, it just makes the pain a bit worse. So, yeah, if I can get up to that, that'd be really good. But otherwise, you know, I'm really active and I'm fine. I am honestly fine.

Helen

It's pudendal neuralgia, isn't it? And it's this condition that causes this pain around your pelvis or your genitals or...a toothache up your bum. And it's like when this major nerve is damaged, obviously, we think in your case, through forceps birth. Yeah, but I'm just. Yeah, I'm just not quite. I don't know. I don't want you to have seven to ten days of pain every month. That's bobbins.

Skye

I know. Do you know what, though? I'm just kind of used to it. Do you remember what we said in the beginning? We all said if you could just be like, get used to it. You know, like you've got. If you just once, you've just had a filling, right? And it, like, feels really bulky and weird in your mouth. And then after a while, it feels all right. And I feel like I'm kind of in that place where, you know, I've just gotten used to it. I've gotten used to things feeling a bit different and strange. And it's kind of my normal now, if you know what I mean.

Jess

The thing is, though, as well, like, the experience of going to the hospital and the waiting list and to be honest, being treated like a number, that's how I feel. I mean, last time I went to the hospital, I had to fill this really long questionnaire in that was literally mortifying. I don't know if you've had to fill one in, but, you know, you're reading stuff that could be a possibility for you, like, later on in life, you know, and it's quite emotional, like, filling this form in. And then I went there the other day. She'd not even read it.

Skye

Oh, I hate that.

Jess

Not even read it. And I thought, you know what? I cried over that. And you've not even read it. And it's literally like, I'm a number. You don't even.. do what I mean? And then. And I do you find it's, like, just a bit of a fob off? I personally feel, like, fobbed off for seven years.

Skye

So where are you up to with it, Jess? Like, where are you at? What's the plan?

Helen

I mean, let's just rewind just for a little bit because I'm just trying to think back to the last episode where we...where we spoke and actually, like, you were in a relatively good place because you'd just had your second baby, with your prolapse. You'd been wearing a pessary. You'd been feeling pretty good.

Jess

Well, so my. My little baby now is turning..he's going to be four.

Helen

What?!

Jess

Christmas. Yeah, he's gonna be four. On New Year's Eve. Yeah. So, yeah. Came out healthy. Yeah, because he was massive and nine pound ten. And he had a massive head. So big. And honestly, I cried. I cried after because I was like, umming and erring about this flipping c-section and wondering what the best thing to do was. And then it was a bit scary. It was fine, but it was just all a bit anxiety provoking. And then he came out and they actually got the weight wrong. They said he was, like, ten pound four. So at that point, I was like, oh, my God, I'm so glad I had a c-section! He's got this amazing. Yeah, he is so cute. He's got this amazing hair that obviously hides his massive head, but he has. He's got a massive head, but he's obviously got these beautiful curls.

So, anyway, so, yeah, so then I went back to the consultant was like, right now, because you said I had to wait for my second baby. Little bone of contention there. Don't know if you could pick it up from my voice. And then she sent me for loads of test and guess what? I had a third degree tear that wasn't picked up.

Helen

From the first birth?

Jess

From the first birth, yeah. So that's really frustrating because I feel like I was obviously talking about all these symptoms that I was having and no one really paid attention. Yeah.

Helen

So, and so hang on. I'm so sorry. If you have a third degree tear that isn't picked up, like, what is that, three years?

Jess

Yeah.

Helen

What, um. Does it, does it heal? Does it heal badly?

Jess

So you're basically supposed to be stitched up in theatre if you have a third degree tear. That's the protocol. And I think you're supposed to have possibly antibiotics afterwards. So obviously got a stitches infection as well, so that's not helped with the healing either. I don't really know. I've not really got any answers. I got told by a letter that I had a third. Wait, no. Was it a letter? No, I rang up and said, have I had a third degree tear? Because I could tell on the ultrasound that it didn't look right. But then they were like, oh, yeah, you've had a third degree tear. But anyway, I've only just seen someone.

Helen

For that?

Jess

Well, no, because that's. I think it's a different department. So I've still not really seen anyone to discuss it. So. Yeah, it's just. That's what I mean, it's just. It's just actually exhausting. I actually can't be asked, I just carry on. This is why women don't say anything, because it's just such a struggle.

Helen

So what, so what, like, what are your symptoms like? Like, why, what's going on with you then?

Jess

Some of the tests I went for were. Had an ultrasound, I had nerve conduction tests, so I think there's some nerve damage there as well. And I had to have...did you have the test, Skye? The one that's inhumane?

Skye

The poopagram?

Helen

The proctogram?

Skye

Yeah - poopagram

Skye

Oh, it was like, the most humiliating.

Jess

Yeah. So I had that as well...and it was a guy as well, behind the screen.

Helen

And I know what...and I know what that is now, because you mentioned it last time. And this is where you have this barium or whatever, toothpaste stuff up your bum?

Jess

Yeah. It didn't come out for ages. It was so uncomfortable. It was just sticky and horrid.

Skye

No. You're just sat there in a room.

Helen

And. And they can then sort of do an x ray and see where...if you've got a rectocele or a back wall prolapse?

Jess

Yeah. So I've got some issues up that way as well. So then I get all that information via letter, then I chase up an appointment again and again. Then I get one and then. Yeah. Obviously we talked about surgery and whilst, in a way, I'd kind of like surgery, a. Obviously you have to take time off work. I don't think I have time. Not time, but, you know when you're like, the success rate isn't...

Skye

Would it be rectocele surgery?

Jess

No, I think it would be...I don't know. I think it would....no, because I think I've got more or less all the prolapses of some kind, so I don't even know from a third degree tear point of view. And obviously some of the issues going to the toilet, I think that's a separate issue that I'm waiting to hear about. But apparently they keep discussing me at MDT and I don't really know what the outcome of that is or have seen anyone like a colorectal surgeon. But she said basically that there was some operation that she would suggest, but I was like, I'm not sure she put in the letter, like, I don't think it's necessarily worth it or my symptoms aren't that bad and that's not the case. Like, my symptoms are bad, but they're not horrendous, to the point where, like, do I want surgery for 70% success rate? Do you know what I mean? Like, risk versus benefit?

So I'm just in this, like, annoying...I mean, it's not horrendous, it's not ideal, sort of. And I'd have to take loads of time off work, and so it's just...it's not that I don't think I need it, because I think if they said, oh, yeah, this surgery is like 90% success rate, then I would be more inclined to have it now.

Skye

It's the risk benefit thing.

Jess

Yeah. So I'm sort of managing. If I'm not constipated, then I'm generally much better. But, yeah, it's not. It's not. Yeah, it's not great.

Helen

So are you managing to be active and do other, like, your exercise?

Jess

So I did start going to the gym and stuff, but it's just. It's just hard with a little one, like. But he's going to preschool next year, so I'm definitely gonna have a Friday morning. So I've already decided that I'm gonna go to the gym and then my mother in law has the children on Wednesday evenings now, and she picks him up from school and she takes him to school the next day. So I've got. I'm like, Wednesdays?

Helen

That's nice.

Jess

Oh, my goodness. She's like my new favourite person in the whole world. That's really helpful.

Helen

Do you think maybe you just need to, like, just...if you can manage how things are at the moment, just take a break from it all and try and just.

Jess

Yeah, I'm not like, oh, I want surgery. I'm kind of like, if things are good, like, I'm all right, but it is constantly on my mind, every single day that I have a prolapse. And, you know, I mean, oh, have I been to the toilet today? It's just. It is exhausting. Exhausting and it is tiring. So, like, yeah, I mean, if, you know, do I wish I hadn't got a prolapse and had a section the first time around? Yes.

Skye

Me too.

Helen

But, you know, you wouldn't have met us then.

Jess

Yeah, but I would have still met Skye because I'd have met her at a baby group and we could have just talked about...

Skye

About going out for cocktails.

Jess

Yeah, exactly. Not just vaginas.

Skye

Instead of our vaginas.

Jess

Yeah, exactly.

Helen

All right, well um...

Jess

Helen's like I don't know...where do we go with this?

Helen

Shall I tell you where I'm up to?

Skye

How's your vagina, Helen?

Helen

Oh, you know, box fresh. Yeah, no, I'm all right. I think the thing that's happening to me now because, like, you've just turned 40, but I'm rolling into 46 and I think I'm starting to notice some changes, you know, perimenopause.

Skye

Oh, I'm with you, honestly, there.

Helen

Yeah. It's hard to know in it. Cause, like, you know, like, a couple of months ago or something, I went two runs in a row where I was, like, leaking wee. And that's never really happened to me before, so I was just like, oh, that's really depressing.

Skye

Are you still doing all your exercise?

Helen

I'm doing loads. And that's what I was really annoyed about because I'm doing. I'm doing like a couple of runs a week of like, I don't know, 5k or whatever around the park. And I'm doing strength training, you know, like I'm feeling strong, I'm feeling really good. Like, I've got like two five kg weights and I do all my stuff. And so, yeah, I was kind of like, well, that's not fair because I'm feeling pretty fit. But. So, yeah, but anyway, then I went, like, religious on the pelvic floor exercises and did them like, you know, twice a day forever, and it hasn't happened since, so I don't know. It was obviously a blip of some sort, but why it happened, I don't know. And, yeah, I'm thinking maybe just perimeno stuff going on.

Jess

I think cycle has a lot to do with stuff.

Skye

Yeah. Where you are in your cycle, where everything's sitting.

Helen

Yeah, definitely. It's just that it's never happened before, really. So I didn't. I didn't really enjoy that because then my brain. Yeah, then your brain goes, okay, where's this going now then?

But, but, yeah, it's okay. It's not happened since. And I think my pelvic floor exercises has helped with that. And, yeah, a couple of people at the time were like, oh, have you thought about vaginal oestrogen? So I'm kind of thinking about it a little bit. I don't really know enough about it to know where to go to get it. Or, I mean, obviously you go to GP, don't you? But I need to work all that stuff out.

Jess

I think it's getting. Oh, it's getting older, isn't it? That's the trouble with life, isn't it? Getting older. Like, do you know what I mean?

Skye

I'm glad I'm getting older. What's the alternative?

Jess

Well yeah, you're probably right.

Skye

Let's talk about something a bit more upbeat.

Helen

We need to find a way to wrestle some hope out of this episode.

Skye

We are all a lot better than we were.

Jess

Yeah.

Helen

Yeah, a hundred percent

Jess

Yeah. I don't have a secret mirror that I keep checking myself every five minutes to see if it's got worse

Skye

Yeah, and that's huge progress.

Jess

And I don't accost any...I don't like, just tell everyone about my pelvic floor issues anymore.

Skye

Whereas I started to because I never used to talk about it, did I? But nowadays I am a bit more open about it. And that for me is actually a good thing.

Helen

Yeah. Didn't you accost some woman on holiday in a hotel?

Skye

Oh yeah, we had a right good talk about vaginas.

Helen

So there you go, the chaos continues. And you know, I can't pretend that everyone's experiences, all sunshine and rainbows all the time, because it isn't. But we go on. And I hope that in sharing all of these stories, you can find something that resonates and helps with your own journey in some way, shape or form.

As ever, none of this is intended as medical advice, so please seek out your own professional help. But if you'd like to find your own POP club, there's a post on my Instagram grid where people who want to meet others have left their location in the comments. It's a bit old now, but people still add to it, so have a scan through to see if there's anyone near you who might want to hang out.

You've been listening to Why Mums Don't Jump with me Helen Ledwick. You can find me on socials @whymumsdontjump or online at whymumsdontjump.com. And if you're enjoying the podcast, I'd be really grateful if you would tell someone about it or leave a review somewhere or feed the Instagram algorithm by liking, sharing, saving, commenting on any of my posts, it all helps others to find the podcast. That's it for me. Bye for now.

Season 5 of Why Mums Don't Jump is brought to you by iMEDicare - Pelvic Health Naturally. The team at iMEDicare are passionate about improving quality of life for patients with pelvic health problems, and they supply products that are safe and easy to use as part of your rehab journey. Products like the Efemia bladder support - a reusable vaginal pessary for stress incontinence, helping you to stay active without worrying about leaks. Made from a soft and flexible silicone, Efemia is widely available on NHS prescription as well as through the affiliate shop on the Why Mums Don't Jump website, where you'll also find a discount code. Check it out.