Prudent's Story - Episode Transcript

Helen

Hi, I'm Helen, and this is Why Mums Don't Jump: busting taboos about leaks and lumps after childbirth. All the stuff that happens to your pelvic floor that no one ever talks about - incontinence prolapse, pelvic pain. Problems that affect millions of women, one-in-three! I'm one of them. I have a prolapse. My pelvic organs fell out of place after the birth of my second child. And if you had told me back then that I would be speaking about this stuff out loud, I would have told you to give your head a wobble.

Hi. Welcome back. How are your bits? I'm doing all right. I've been really enjoying getting out from my little runs in the spring sunshine. More of that, please. What else? I got angry with Instagram, who buried one of my posts because it had the word vagina in it. Don't get me started on that. More radio and magazine interviews about the boo - that's been happening, which is great, because obviously anything that gets the word out there is a massive win.

Thanks again to everyone who's bought the book, and if you've read it and liked it, then here's a little reminder to please leave an Amazon review to help others to find it. Cheers to everyone who's done that so far, and thanks as ever for your lovely emails and messages. It's been really great to hear from a couple of doctors this week. It's such a privilege to be able to keep these pelvic health conversations going on all fronts, so please keep them coming.

I'm delighted to say that today's episode is sponsored by the Mummy MOT, a specialist postnatal examination for women following vaginal or C section deliveries. We've mentioned it before on the podcast. It's an hour long assessment to look at your posture, pelvic floor and stomach muscles, and get you back on track with your fitness goals and your life. Your Mummy MOT practitioner can talk through any concerns you might have, maybe about prolapse, pelvic girdle pain or perineal tears, provide you with a gentle exercise plan and treatment to help with your recovery. They're based all over the UK and Ireland and are there to listen, advise and offer referrals if needed. Find out more at www.themummymot.com

Today's episode is with a mum of two, Prudent Haughton, who lives in Kent with her husband, seven year old daughter and 15 month old son. We connected on Instagram a while back and she agreed to share her pelvic floor troubles. She's had a rough time over the last couple of years, but she's one of those people with the most infectious laugh. I promise you will smile when you hear her tell her story. A quick warning, though. You will hear descriptions of perineal tearing and blood loss at the start of this conversation as we begin with the birth of her son.

Prudent

Obviously, I've got two. When I had the first, I thought that was a bad delivery, but obviously it wasn't, because then he happened! And he was quite a heavy baby. Well, for me, because I'm quite small, so he weighed 8lb 2oz, but he was just a lot bigger than I think anyone had anticipated, because my bump was quite small. And, you know, you get the comments, oh, your bump is tiny. But actually, he was just way bigger than we all had expected him to have been.

And during the birth, he just went from not really coming, to just coming way too quickly. And with my daughter, I had an episiotomy, so obviously there's all that old scarring tissue there, and I was fully aware of that and I knew that there are certain positions I didn't want to go in, because that would then probably make that scar just reopen. And so I was aware of that. I mentioned it. I think they did what they could to prevent it. But I was in all the positions - besides my back - up until him not coming. But I think he was getting a bit distressed and they thought they really needed to get him out. So as I went on my back, he just came and the wound just went like that I guess.

They said it was a 3rd or 4th degree tear, and obviously within that happening, I just lost loads of blood. So I lost 1.5 litres of blood, which didn't help either. And just going from only having gas and air to the blood loss being so high and the tear being so bad, I then had to have a spinal blocker to get the wound repaired.

Helen

Yeah so straight into surgery?

Prudent

Exactly. Literally. And I feel like at that moment, because there's so many people and it just all went crazy so quickly, I just thought, oh, my God, what's happening? Like, I'm not going to leave the hospital. Because you just kind of think the worse at the time, I guess. Right? And there was one point they weren't sure if they should repair the wound now, or it was just all a bit unsure in the room, which didn't help. And in my husband's face, he was trying to be positive, but I could just see it, so it just went downhill very quickly.

I think...like the pregnancy was all right. I had loads of pressure, which I mentioned, but I didn't take it seriously, I guess, because I wasn't maybe saying I was too bothered about it. Maybe as a result, it wasn't taken as a bad thing.

Helen

You mean just a feeling of pressure?

Prudent

Yeah, just loads of pressure, like, in my lower abdomen. And I think because I just kind of kept it moving throughout pregnancy, because I felt quite well, I had nausea throughout and I was vomiting throughout, but besides that, I felt well, I looked well. I thought, great pregnancy. So I didn't really...maybe I should have put my feet up a bit more. I don't know.

Helen

Stop blaming yourself.

Prudent

So, yes, I didn't take all that seriously at all. So obviously the birth happened. So they repaired the wound. We were in hospital for a little while and we came home and I thought, everything's fine, but I literally felt like I had no control of anything, which I didn't know that was a thing! No one said, oh, this may happen when you go home, and that makes you emotional.

Helen

So, like, going to the toilet and stuff?

Prudent

Yeah, I wouldn't make it. It was a joke. Like, I was sleeping, but I had, like...was putting loads of towels on the bed because I thought, like, what's happening to me? I felt so broken. It was awful.

Helen

It's really shocking and scary and unexpected. My daughter was a C-section, my oldest child, and then my son was a VBAC - so a vaginal birth afterwards -so to sort of try and get...in hospital and go to the toilet and just have this sensation of everything just going. It was so shocking to me that I mentioned it to the midwives and they were like, yeah, that's fine.

Prudent

That happened to me. I know! The lady came in and I was like, this has just happened. I couldn't make it - because it started happening before I left the hospital -and they were just like, oh, no, it's okay. And I thought, well, like, a little bit of warning, like, nobody told me.

Helen

And it wasn't like that after your daughter?

Prudent

No, not at all. And that's what I'm saying. I thought that was bad because of the episiotomy and the healing from that. Actually, it wasn't bad at all. So yeah before leaving the hospital, it started happening, and they said, as time goes on, it will be fine, it will get better. And it just didn't really feel like it was getting better. And they mentioned, like, modifying diets. And obviously with the wound, I guess you needed everything to kind of be loose. So I was given all sorts of medications to take home just to help with, I guess, stools or just

Helen

So laxatives and things?

Prudent

Yeah, I was given laxatives. I was given blood thinners. I think that was just to prevent clotting, etc. And then I think I was also given some antibiotics as well, just to prevent infections. So I felt like I was on lots of meds, not quite sure why. And then obviously I wasn't making it to the bathroom, and I was trying to feed him. Feeding was hard. He had a tongue tie. It was just...dealing with him and I felt bad about his situation and then my situation, it was just a lot. Yeah, it was just so much.

Helen

And so that was in the early days.

Prudent

That was in the early days. Yeah. So initially I just thought, okay, we're going to figure him out. But I didn't expect my situation to need figuring out as well, like, getting used to. But then that was in the first few days, and then you get a midwife come over about five days check. So she came over and I told her about that, but I also told her how..so at this point, I started feeling like heaviness as well. So I mentioned that to her, but she said it was just swelling because of how bad it was etc. And I thought, okay, fine. So obviously took her advice, just try to take it easy kind of thing.

And then days went on and the heaviness just continued and like, pain. I had the worst pains in my lower abdomen, like across my belly button area, and it was just awful. And I found that the pain was worse as the day went on. So towards the end of the day, it would be worse. I'll be washing the dishes and I would think, oh my God, I need to sit down. Like, I'm in so much pain. And again, I mentioned that, but nobody really thought well, said it was anything to worry about. And I thought, this is ridiculous. I got a mirror. And I was just like, I don't remember it looking like this. And that was probably the worst thing to do. So I got the mirror. Then I thought, this is a joke, I'm going to Google it. And then I Googled it and I was just like, what is a prolapse?

Helen

Oh, my goodness. Same

Prudent

So I was looking at images. I was like reading all these articles. I was up at ridiculous o'clock during the night because obviously you're trying to feed as well. Anyway, so I'm up, but it helped because it made me aware, but it didn't help because it sent me down a rabbit hole.

Helen

Yes, you could be speaking for me. Exactly the same thing. And it's like, okay. It's like, I think I might have found out what's wrong, but I kind of wish that I hadn't found out what was wrong. Now I'm reading everything there is to know about it and I feel like, wow, this is game over. I don't know where this is going to end up.

Prudent

It was awful. I just thought...I think I obviously wasn't aware and I didn't know it was possible. And then I thought, okay, right. So I started trying to figure out how to fix it. So I was like, looking up all these gynaecologists, and I was emailing people. I ended up contacting this woman's health, well, a gynaecologist, and she works at the hospital that I had him. So then she then pointed me in the direction of a women's health physio because she said that I maybe need to see her first. We booked this private appointment because I just wasn't quite getting anywhere with, like the midwives or just with the normal services, if that makes sense. And actually, yes so I booked the appointment with her, but even prior to that, I was expecting because of the tear, I should have had a Gynaecologist check in January, I think it was, because he was born in November. So they gave you a bit of time for things to heal, etc. I should have had an appointment in January, but because of COVID I think my appointment just kind of got lost in translation and it was being treated as a normal GP referral rather than a perineal checkup following a bad birth, so that didn't quite help. So I was also trying to call everybody in relation to that, just trying to get that sorted. That didn't quite happen either.

I tried to push my GP. That's a bit tricky, I think, in the early days of having a baby, because they're not sure whether there's actually something wrong with you, or if it's just too much stress and I'm possibly depressed. So there was that. There was appointments made, but I think they just questioned whether I was in the right space. So at one point, I had to get my husband to come with me because I felt like I needed somebody to advocate for me. I mean I was stressed, but I wasn't depressed...because I could think for myself. I just had problems that...I wanted somebody to actually believe that I had. If that makes sense?

Helen

I mean, yes, you're going to have symptoms of depression and feeling sad and upset and traumatised and emotional, but there's actually, like, a physical reason for that, and that's the thing that you're asking for help with at that point. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's a muddied waters of everything all at once, isn't it?

Prudent

It so was. And it just felt even much harder, I think, because of that. So, anyway, my husband was like, right, we need to get you seen, so that actually, at least a professional can give some advice whilst we were waiting for it to get sorted with the GP.

So we saw the woman's health physio, she assessed me, she said, yes, you do have early stage prolapse, and she then wrote a letter to the GP, which pushed that ahead for me to actually get seen by the gynaecologist department. So, yeah, so I saw her, I had a follow up with her booked, but by then, I actually had my appointment rescheduled to go to the hospital, which was a good thing, because it's quite pricey to obviously make these private appointments.

I just think oh, my God. If like, thank God we were in a position where we could do that, because I would have just been at home just wallowing, thinking, I can't get an appointment. And, yeah, so my second appointment with her, I cancelled that, because I actually got to see a women's health physio at the hospital that I had him at, and I also got seen by the urogynaecologist as well, which was, I think was quite good, and they basically confirmed what the private appointment had said. So she confirmed that I did have a stage two prolapse - she graded it as - of my bladder, so she just said it's basically shifted and it caused pain. When I went to pee, I didn't quite know where it was coming from, so yeah, it was just a lot.

Helen

So you were about five or six months into it by then. And how were those symptoms like you described, like not making it to the toilet and urine incontinence or bowel incontinence or both?

Prudent

So to begin with it was both. However, when I saw...the first appointment with the private health physio, she suggested coming off of those laxatives to see what that would do. But I was also on quite a lot of iron from the blood loss, so it was trying to find the middle ground. So it was a matter of just playing around with the things that I was taking. And as time went on, it got better.

And then we spoke about my diet and also about exercises that could....I think it wasn't even a matter of retraining the muscles to begin with, it was just to try to wake them back up kind of thing, so that they could do the job that they're there to do. So that really helped.

So the urine incontinence, I mean, I was running to the bathroom, but I was making it. So that got better as time went on. And even now it's so much better. And then bowel incontinence. Thank goodness that stopped because I don't know how I would have faced leaving the house if that continued.

But yeah. So I started seeing the woman's health physiotherapist at the hospital he was born and I basically had a session with her once every two weeks and then that reduced to monthly. We spoke about exercises, about breathing, just learning how to relax, really. And then alongside her we paid for a private osteopath, which it was initially for my son because he had the tongue tie, and that was released so he could obviously feed. So thank God he started feeding at eleven weeks, which just felt way too late, but it happened. But then I started seeing her as well and she basically massaged my fascia, which I didn't even know existed.

Helen

No, I mean, it's all a bit of a mystery to me. So tell me which part of your body...she did that internally, like a physio would?

Prudent

So she did an exam, like a vaginal exam, like a physio would, just to see where things were lying. And she spoke to me about the birth, asked me to show her where the pain was, and just asked me about a normal daily routine. She then made suggestions on how to actually relax. So I think my pelvic floor was quite tight and just quite tense and I think where I was so stressed as well, that didn't help because that tightened it even more. So we spoke about breathing exercises to help me to relax. At the end of each day, I would literally lay down, feet elevated, just like, breathe.

Helen

Yes. It's so important!

Prudent

I felt so crazy! But it was so important and it helped so much. And she was like, I needed to have, like, a calm moment and breathe and literally feel my shoulders, like, drop, which I didn't even and actually, you can once you get into the zone, you can feel, like, the relaxing happening. And I needed to learn how to release my pelvic floor and my fascia...she basically explained that it's like a netting that holds all the organs and the muscles into place. And when my bladder moved, it was obviously not in a place that it's used to being in. So it was then pulling on everything else, which was, as a result, causing that pain. So she therefore literally poked into my tummy, under my ribs, like, massaging. I don't know what she was feeling for, but whatever it is she was feeling for under there, she was massaging it and releasing all the tension within that area. So therefore, things will then sit back where they should and stop tugging. Because where the bladder was pulling, it was then tugging on all other strings of the fascia, according to her explanation, to make me understand.

Helen

Yeah

Prudent

And having released that, that should then make the pain go.

Helen

And do you feel like that helped? Because I've not spoken to anyone who's had osteopathy before, and that makes practical sense to me. And did you find that it helped?

Prudent

Yeah. I felt so relaxed, and she laid me on my back and put, like, a piece of wood here and cracked my back. She just released, I guess, all that tension that I was holding. And it did help. Well, something helped because as time went on, that pain will get less and less each day. And now if I get super stressed and I've had a really busy day, I would feel like the pain is maybe coming back slightly. But I haven't had the pain in ages, and I literally had that pain every single day. I had that pain every single day. By the end of the day, I'm guaranteed to have that pain, and it would just feel so uncomfortable. And it just made me feel so emotional and sad because it was like a reminder of what...everything that was going on or that had happened. But that really helped.

I also took up yoga and Pilates, which I was advised that that will also help. So rather than going back into that hardcore high intensity exercises, I needed to basically learn to relax. Apparently, I wasn't.

Helen

I don't know why that's funny, but it is.

Prudent

I laugh at it as well! My husband looks at me and he's like, I tell you all the time, he's like, you don't really need to learn to sit down.

Helen

Yeah, gosh. Sometimes that's a really important message, isn't it? Just sometimes part of the answer, at least, is just to learn to stop and relax and breathe.

Prudent

That is so true and I think that was such a big thing for me and I tried to implement... I mean, I need to get back to it, I think, because I've been feeling better, I've not been doing it as much, but at the end of each day, I was right, that's it, everybody's in bed. I'm going to lay down and you'd just see me...you're coming to a room. I'll be laying down on my back and my feet will just be up in the air. But it just made such a big difference to learn to stop and just to take a moment. And I think a big part of it... it's literally self care, right?

Helen

Yeah.

Prudent

And it is just stopping, but it's stopping to breathe. And even if it's to think back on the day or whatever it is. But it is just stopping. And that really helped. That helped so much.

Helen

I love that. I think that's so interesting and something we could, I'm sure, all do better at, especially because you become a mum, you have all these other responsibilities and we've said it before, but so often you just go to the bottom of the list of to do, don't you?

Prudent

Yeah.

Helen

It sounds like you've had really amazing support as well from your partner. I'm always interested, like, when you were in the thick of it and obviously, from what you've said, like, struggling emotionally, like we all do, did you tell people? Could you talk to people or were you embarrassed to tell people? Or where was your head at?

Prudent

So I initially found it super embarrassing because I thought it just sounds so gross, because it's technically your organs wanting to fall out. Right. I thought it sounded awful, but then, having started looking it up and reading about it, I realised how common it was and so many people you probably know, is going through the same thing and actually you're just unaware of it.

So initially, I was really embarrassed about it, but I have a few close friends and then obviously my husband and my mum, and it really helped speaking to them about it, and they have children as well, but they were just so unaware of it. But they were just all so supportive.

Most of my friends live in London, and I'm out of London now, so they're so much further away than we used to be when we were younger. But they call often and send flowers and just like, check in. And when they do manage to come over, they'll come over and be like, no, you sit down. I'll wash up. And it was just so nice knowing that. Obviously, I knew that they're there, but it was so nice seeing them just step in and be there for me, literally, because I think I've never needed that before, but knowing that it happened and they will do that, that really helped.

But, yeah, no, my husband and my small group of friends and my mum - my mum was just always there with, I think, just stepping in, like, helping with the kids and I have an extended family as well of stepsisters and they came around more often as well. And it was just so nice having everybody show up because I think where I haven't needed it before and I'm so good at just getting it all done myself. And I was just so vulnerable within the first few months and knowing that they were there and stepped up, it was just so nice.

Helen

That's amazing. And the thing I kind of love about your story is it's kind of like my journey, but I've taken eight years and you just, like, supercharged the whole thing in, like, 15 months. You went through this really difficult birth, you had all these symptoms, you really struggled, it was a lot, but then you were just like, I am going to get help. You went out there, you did the Pilates, the yoga, the osteopath, the physiotherapy, then you were like, on it with the doctor, get me sorted and the relaxing and everything, and I feel like that's the kind of person you are. You're just going to not going to take things lying down, you're going to sort it

Prudent

Oh my gosh. I just felt so in control. Felt like I just was not in control, rather. And I felt like I needed to do something, I think as well, where the breastfeeding just wasn't working, and I really wanted it to. And I was so persistent. I was literally setting alarms and just waking up just to express, because he obviously wasn't latching. And there was just so many things that wasn't working and that I could not control. I thought I had to feel like I was doing something, so therefore I thought, right, I'm going to sign up to the gym, I'm going to Pilates. I just felt like I had to find the things that I could control to make them work, just to make me feel better, because I just think I would have lost it. Yeah, it was just really hard and I needed to feel like I was trying, because otherwise that would have just sent me into a deeper hole, if that makes sense.

Helen

Absolutely. And I think...if you think back now to the Prudent that sort of found herself in that situation in those early weeks and months, what do you wish she would have known at the start of this? Is there anything that would have made it easier? I mean, obviously, if it had never happened, obviously that would be great, but let's say that it did. What would have made that easier?

Prudent

Knowing that it's not the end, knowing that it's possible to actually get through. And there's things that will help the physio, the Pilates, the yoga, like all these just relaxing, because that's like the easiest, you don't have to pay for that. So if somebody had said to me -although I'm sure they did, I just didn't listen - if I had believed at the beginning that actually just taking a moment to stop, actually, it would help. So if I knew that at the beginning, I don't think I would have stressed and cried, like, every day about it.

Helen

We've all cried. We've all cried a lot.

Prudent

Too much.

Helen

Yeah, too much. Too much. How do you feel, like, obviously prolapse, presumably still an issue and will be. And how do you feel about moving forward now? And as your kids get older and you get older, do you think about it? Have you got a plan or are you just kind of cool with it?

Prudent

I do think about it every so often, but I know that it's not the end. And I think I know more now, more confident that it is literally not just going to drop out.

Helen

Yes, well, sometimes that takes a while to kind of...it took me years to really feel comfortable with that idea.

Prudent

So I think I feel much more positive now. Yeah. I'm just not as worried about it as I was before. And obviously the pain isn't there as much. I just know that it is a lifestyle change, though. So I do need to keep up with the pilates and continue to relax and not stress as much. And I think I probably quite internalise stress, so I'll be all smiley and happy, but actually, I'm like, going a bit mad, so I think I'm so much more positive and I think it's, like, not the end, so it's just a matter of all those things that I incorporated to make me feel better. It's just a matter of continuing and knowing that it's something that I now need to make sure I do moving forward.

Helen

Yeah. And also, I think just knowing that we're all human, aren't we? And you can't be great at all those things all the time. And there's always roadblocks that mean that you don't keep up with your exercises or whatever. But for me, it's just been that it's all right now. Because I know that I can...and I know where to go if I need help. And I know...I understand what's going on. And I've rehabilitated and recovered to a point, and I know I can do that again and maintain it.

Prudent

Yeah, exactly. Now, I completely agree. And that's like, my mindset now, because in the early days, I could not speak about it without crying or trying not to cry, but crying anyway, it was just really hard. And I'm so far from there and I just think I've come so far along the journey, so I do feel okay.

And even in the early stages, I think just simple things as, like, lifting my son or taking the buggy, which I had to lift out of the boot every morning for the school run or whatever, I was so worried about those things or bringing the shopping in, but actually, I've learned all these techniques now that makes me feel confident to know that actually, I am doing what I can to support my pelvic floor before lifting loads of bags. But actually, my physio did say, don't be like a superwoman and lift all the bags at the same time.

Helen

Yeah. Be sensible.

Prudent

Yeah, exactly.

Helen

I'm going to stop it there. I think you're a superwoman. I think you probably can do all the bags now. With everything you're... all the training you're doing...all the bags and the buggy and the baby and the seven year old, why not?!

Sensible superwoman Prudent Haughton, thank you. As ever, none of this is intended as medical advice. Please find your own professional help. And listen, I'm going to take a break next week. I need a little rest. But don't worry, I'll have another fabulous episode for you the week after.

While I've got you, I need to tell you about this really cool thing that's happening in June. A women's health festival in Cardiff. It sounds amazing. I'll be speaking there alongside a mind blowing list of incredible women's health advocates, looking at everything from periods to menopause, mental health and sexual wellbeing. It's called EveryWoman Festival. Tickets are available now. Come and see us. It's going to be great.

And so, yeah, I'll see you in a couple of weeks. And in the meantime, stay well. Buy the book and please help to share these conversations in whatever way you feel comfortable. You've been listening to Why Mums Don't Jump with me. Helen Ledwick. You can find me on socials @whymumsdontjump or online at whymumsdontjump.com