Sophie Power - Episode Transcript

Helen

Hi, I'm Helen, and this is Why Mums Don't Jump. Busting taboos about leaks and lumps after childbirth. All the stuff that happens to your pelvic floor that no one ever talks about - incontinence, prolapse, pelvic pain. Problems that affect millions of women, one-in-three. I'm one of them. I have a prolapse, my pelvic organs fell out of place after the birth of my second child. And if you had told me back then that I would be speaking about this stuff out loud, I would have told you to give your head a wobble.

Helen

Hi, how are you doing? Welcome to series three, episode five. And thanks to those of you who got in touch about last week's episode, I was really glad that I wasn't the only one who did not know that in the UK you don't call surgeons 'Doctor'.

What else? I am well, I've had an offer of a private pessary fitting, which I'm going to go for, because I've been trying to sort it through the NHS for a year now and obviously it hasn't happened, so I'll let you know how that pans out.

There are some other exciting things going on behind the scenes here  too, so I'll hopefully be able to share all of that soon. So watch this space.

Today then, I've talked a bit before about how my pelvic floor problems made me scared of exercise, scared of movement, scared of running and jumping, lifting. For so long, I'd been watching other women out for a run or getting their zumba on, and I was very jealous. It made me sad. And then I gradually realized that I could get back to being this active person that I was and it's made a massive difference. And I'm still running in the park a couple of times a week, but I'm not running in the way that today's guest runs. Sophie Power is a mum of three and she's an ultra runner.

Sophie

So I like running the longest and hardest spaces that I can possibly find, normally over 100 miles.

Helen

Yep serious running.

Sophie has pelvic floor problems and there's a film about her return to running after baby number three, which you should watch if you haven't already. And when she's not running or mumming or working, she campaigns for the charity Women In Sport.

And also, you might have come across Sophie because a picture of her breastfeeding during a race went viral a couple of years ago.

You were photographed in the middle of this, like, 100 miles race, not only breastfeeding your baby at the time, but also pumping at the same time as well. And that just went viral, didn't it?

Sophie

It was crazy. So the race was called The Ultra Trail of Mont Blanc, and it's 106 miles mountain race around Mont Blanc, with about 11,000 meters of climbing.

And, yeah, I completed it when my second son was three months old. And Alexis Berg, is an incredible trail photographer, happened to be at the aid station where I met Cormac, about the halfway mark, and photographed me pumping, feeding, kind of in my kit, tired, I'd run through the night, I hadn't slept. And that photo, I think that photo, it means so much to so many different people.

Yes, there's the breastfeeding and the need to support mums to make their own choices when it comes to feeding their baby. But, also I think that we can have active pregnancies and it's important to give mums the support to get back to what they want to get back to as soon as possible after.

And that mums should still have our goals when we've had our babies, our goals still matter, we still matter separate to our children, we don't just become mothers.

So the picture meant so much to so many people and I guess it's given me this platform to help other mums follow their goals and stay healthy and kind of advocate for themselves when it comes to after birth. And I guess we'll talk about kind of what can happen after birth, but making sure we get the right support to get us where we want to be, not just able to walk down the road leak free, pain free.

Helen

And sometimes it's like  that saying, isn't it?  A picture says a thousand words and it really does.

So talk to me a bit about your pelvic floor, right. I know, I know, this is why we're talking, because you have had issues and you're still running. Take me back to the first point at which you knew that something wasn't quite right.

Sophie

So I discovered what a pelvic floor was about 3 hours after I had my first son and basically just peed myself, everywhere. And I remember calling the midwife and saying, I think there's some more like amniotic fluid inside me. I genuinely actually said that to her and she's like, no, it's what happens after having children.

And I was like what? And she's like, yeah, pelvic floor. And then the next day a physio came to see me and said you may never run again. I said what?!

So the worst possible thing to say to someone who's a new mum for the first time, incredibly vulnerable and it was just that you might never run again. Running means so much to me.

Helen

That's a bomb dropped, isn't it? Right there for you.

Sophie

My husband kicked her out basically, when I couldn't advocate for myself he advocated for me and I'm very grateful he did because I was already in this shock.

So my pelvic floor was really weak. I'd had an episiotomy and a ventouse delivery and that probably played its part in quite a long labor and I didn't know what it was. And I can't believe I got through my entire pregnancy without someone telling me that this could happen.

And I know they could have talked about it in the pregnancy yoga, the kind of the squeeze and things, but no one explained that you could end up leaking.

So I went three months without taking a running step, which was incredibly difficult. And I am fairly sure if I'd have seen someone, I'd been diagnosed with postnatal depression and it was only when I saw this advert for these shorts,  these EVB shorts that really support the core, that I got a pair and I could start running again.

And I got my fitness back and I did my first, kind of, 50 miler before he was six months. But those three months were very, very difficult and it was winter and I kind of vowed from there,  I need to be on top of this. I need to know what's happening. I need to take control of my body. I need to research everything. And all my friends who are going to have babies, I need to tell them what could happen so they don't have to go through what I did.

Helen

And did you have professional support to get back to running or were you doing it on your own?

Sophie

Doing it all on my own. I  didn't know anything  was out there. This was 2014/15, so I was doing it on my own. Everything seemed to say don't do anything. And I was just listening to my body really carefully and taking step by step to go okay, I feel I can do this, I feel I can do that.

I was doing a lot of strength training with the trainer through my pregnancy and afterwards and I think that really helped. But I was making up as I went along, which shouldn't have been the case. I didn't have any referral to pelvic health physio and it's shocking that it took that and kind of me to having to be really focused to get myself fit again.

Helen

And what you said there resonates with me a little bit because when I first found out I had a prolapse, there was a time when I never thought I would run again, I would never jump, I would never lift my kids because that was all the advice that was out there.

And obviously I do not run like you run. I run around the park a couple of times a week. But I love it and having that back in my life has made so much difference to me. But it just seemed to me at the time that the medical advice was just stop. And that made me so fearful of movement. So I also didn't do anything, but I didn't do anything for years because I was just terrified.

Sophie

Which is crazy.

Helen

It was quite brave of you, really, to get back into it.

Sophie

I think, because I wasn't on social media at all and I wasn't seeing that. I mean, that's probably why I ran UTMB. I didn't think that was abnormal in any way. I had this place in a race that I'd fought for for four, five years. I'd lost my place when I had my first son, it took me this long to get another one, so I just went and started it.

So not being on social media probably helped but, now the lack of the information around even pregnancy, so you saw the information on prolapses,  is do nothing, don't lift anything. It's been the same in pregnancy and we now know that you have an active pregnancy, the mum's healthier, the baby's healthier.

But, I was told at 20 weeks, I had a tweak in my pelvis and I happened to be seeing the midwife and she's like, oh yeah, you can't lift anything or stand on your feet for too long  from now on, I’m 20 weeks pregnant. And luckily I saw Emma Brockwell, my physio, and she's like, oh, this week is one for relaxing and that's just your pelvis and it'll move a bit, you'll be fine next week.

And I went back running the next week and I was absolutely fine. I could have missed like 20 weeks of being active and mentally healthy, as well as physically healthy. So I think so much is missed. As long as you can function and you're not in pain, people think that's okay and that's not.

Helen

Yeah, it's just like, we don't know enough about this whole group of women, so we'll just tell them all just to stop because we think that's safer. And then, you know, if they get back to it, they do, and if they don't, well, it doesn't really matter because they've done their job.

Sophie

Sadly, that actually kind of feels like the case.

Helen

So you managed to get yourself back into it by just listening to your body and you carried on with the running  and then you had, obviously your second pregnancy and the pelvic floor stood up any better or got worse or?

Sophie

Second pregnancy. So I knew I had this UTMB place before I even got pregnant with my second son.

So I did all my pelvic floor exercises during pregnancy. I did my strength training. I stopped running at five months pregnant, thinking maybe and there's no research on this, but I was thinking maybe because I'd run later in my first pregnancy, the impact caused some issues and it's a mountain race, so I need to hike on an incline in a treadmill, I need to use the StairMaster and do loads of weights and, and some cycling, and that will get me fit.

So I stopped really early. I had a much more straightforward delivery, load of stitches, much more straightforward, and I found myself able to start back running uphill, soft ground around six weeks.

Helen

Wow.

Sophie

So much better. I was back in the gym at ten days on the StairMaster, really listening to my body, and I maintained that fitness so I could get back and I didn't have the issues. I had some pelvic pain and some instability, so I couldn't run downhill.

And I really listened to my pelvic floor and gave it days off just like any other muscle. I mean, I always treat it as like you wouldn't do legs day in the gym, like two days in a row, so you wouldn't do two hard workouts that will tire your pelvic floor two days in a row. And I was just very lucky that I'd had that delivery and that helped me get to the start line.

Helen

So then fast forward, I guess, a couple of years and you're pregnant again with your third child. And this is where the film so you released this film last year with Emma, who you've mentioned, Emma Brockwell, the physio, who's also been on the podcast. Tell me where that whole concept came from. How did you come to be making a film?

Sophie

That's a good question. So I think for me, the photo is amazing because, it showed what women can do and it showed, kind of, that you can get back to fitness and it meant so much. But for me, an image isn't enough. What we need to do is tell women how they can do it.

And I was having a chat with an amazing local photographer, Phil Hill. He takes some beautiful pictures of me running pregnant. And he said, we really need to film this and make a story out of it. And we could do that. And I thought, that's quite crazy because I'm really vulnerable at this point.

But I thought, wow, if this could just help one woman see my journey in all its honesty and kind of see the end of my pregnancy and see whatever, and I didn't know what would happen. That's the thing with every pregnancy, is different, every recovery is different. So I didn't know I was going to have a prolapse, but we just thought we record it on camera and the running shoe brand Hooker kindly sponsored it and we made this documentary about my running and I got to find out I had a prolapse on camera.

Helen

I know.

Sophie

Which is a bit of a shock, really.

Helen

I mean, I think that is one of the things that is so powerful about that film, because you didn't know and you kind of, you go through the emotions a little bit in the same way that anyone else would have done. In fact, there's, I think there's a moment in the film where you have in your check with a physiotherapist six weeks after birth and Emma tells you that you have a prolapse and you can hear in the film a gasp from you kind of inhale of, huh, do you remember what was going through your mind at that point?

Sophie

Yeah, I'd heard the word prolapse before, but only in context with old women. I didn't think that was something that could happen or was common, or maybe you'd had five massive babies and she'd mentioned it in our chat before, but I'd be like, yeah no, I'm fine like. And I wasn't having any kind of symptoms.

My pelvic floor felt it was recovering. It was a massive shock. And then your mind goes straight to, well, can I run again? What does this mean? And I think I've been incredibly lucky. So I met Emma just after I had the UGMB photo went viral.

I was speaking at a sports and exercise medicine conference, just sharing my story. Because there's so little research out, we have to kind of go on stories of women who've got back to fitness. And she was speaking too, and I had a check up with her, and she actually supported me my whole pregnancy. So I thought that I got away with it. That's the wrong thing to say. But I thought that I'd done so much strength work, I'd be absolutely fine the other side, and that wasn't the case. And I ended up with a prolapse, and it was just like, Emma, how are you going to get me back to running?

Helen

How are your symptoms compared to I mean, have your pelvic floor symptoms been, and how are they now?

Sophie

So they were pretty bad at first. I got back, because of the prolapse also, I had a hamstring injury. I tore my hamstring while I was pregnant, which is not a great thing to do. I returned really slowly, and I got back to a really good place. I was fitted for a pessary. And once I had the pessary, I got the all clear to run. And it's a cube. And I nicknamed it Poppy because I just find the word pessary really weird. So Poppy is my best friend, and I was able to kind of get back to real strength.

But, then I got back to London Marathon, and I was slightly cocky in that I'm like, well, I'm back to where I want to be, and I can run the London marathon leak free. I literally just stopped doing my pelvic floor exercises. Stopped.

Helen

Okay.

Sophie

I was like, I'm fine now. Like I'm not leaking. I'm fine. And then I went to see Emma a couple of months later. She was like, where's your pelvic floor gone? Because they test the strength. And in my head, I'd worked so hard to get to a place where I wanted to be, where I could run 26 miles on concrete at a speed I was pretty happy with.

Yeah, I just stopped doing them. And in the same way that if you go, if you go to a gym normally and you stop doing pull ups, you can't do pull ups anymore, because your muscles are gone.

Helen

Yeah.

Sophie

Your pelvic floor is the same, apparently. So she gave me a big warning and said it got down to a point that if I kept not doing them, they wouldn't be strong enough to hold the pessary.

Helen

Wow.

Sophie

And my mind is like, no pessary, no run. Right, okay I had better do them again. So I've got reminders around the house, and I've kind of got back on it, but it was a big wake up call  that we are postpartum for life.

It's why I surround my Instagram feed with pelvic health physios, because every day I'll see something, it's like, make sure you do them. It's like, right, they're boring. I'm trying to do the habits where you tack the habit onto something else you already do. So mine is like if I make a cup of tea, I do my squeezes.

Helen

Yeah.

Sophie

But it's hard.

Helen

It is, it is hard. I quite like the Squeezy app and I have like three months where I'm on it all the time, like three times a day, most days, and then just like, it just stops and I don't do any for like a couple of months. I am in a down period at the moment. I will try and get back on it.

Sophie

But you also have to do them them properly. I realized I wasn't even doing mine properly and I thought I was, but I wasn't. And I wasn't getting the right kind of front and back engagement.

I think if someone actually doesn't have symptoms but wants to know how to do them properly so that they don't get symptoms, going to see a  pelvic health physio and just having them check, are you doing it properly? Because now I know and now I know all the cues. I kind of have had to go pigeon-toed and lean slightly forward and think certain things and then it's really good, if I just do them standing up It's not worth doing really.

Just as any gym exercise, if you don't do it properly, you're not going to see the benefits. So that was a bit of a shocker. I just thought you just squeezed kind of like when you're on the toilet and you want to stop peeing and no, apparently no it's a bit more complicated than that.

Helen

I know, and that's the thing.

And again, I guess you and I have been lucky in that we've been able to go and get the help, but it isn't available to everyone. And I know you've written about this on your blog, especially about postpartum care and the six week check and really calling for every woman, regardless of whether they want to run a marathon or just run after their kids, to be able to access the care to get them back to where they want to be. It's so important, isn't it?

Sophie

I think things are changing. I think, kind of, pelvic health is becoming more and more prominent since so many more women are talking about it. And I think the government said that every woman, they're going to train more physios, every woman is going to have access, but everyone needs to know that through your GP, you can ask for that referral.

And I have to say, a lot of times, I guess I work with women in sport as a trustee and we hear a lot of things where women's health concerns are not taken as seriously as men. And for us it's a case of, yes, I can walk to the shops, but that's not where I want to be.

And our mental health and our physical health are entwined. And there's so much research that shows that the mum's activity level is linked to their children's. So if we want to have active children, we need to be active ourselves and we need that help to be active.

And what we need to do is make sure women demand the care, demand that referral and say, why. My six week GP check, I mentioned the issues I thought I was having and I was kind of leaking what's going on? And they obviously had a tick sheet and the only question that they wanted me to answer was what form of contraception I was using. And I said, but no, but there's all this other and no check, no nothing.

I think what I went through, knowing what I know and being able to advocate for myself, what is the first time mum going through? And so that's why it's sharing, kind of, what they should be looking for and making sure they know that they can get these checks, that they shouldn't suffer in silence. And being back to  functioning is not where you need to get back to, you need to get back to you where you want to get back to.

Helen

100%.

And for me as well, part of that is what you're doing. And what hopefully the podcast is doing is, is ending some of the stigma around that so that you can just have those conversations and you can demand that care without feeling weird about it, or embarrassed, or like you don't deserve it.

Sophie

So since UTMB, obviously I shared my story after that and talked about pelvic floors. And since then so many of my friends come and talk to me about pelvic floor. I guess I'm fairly well known in the ultra running world now because on races I'm always getting people come up to me and have a chat about their pelvic floor, which is hilarious.

Ultra runners, we're big sharers mainly because we're always diving into bushes and having stomach trouble. But the amount of people that reach out and about my friends that after the documentary went out, then had checks and came to me and they go, I've got a prolapse and I didn't know. And then they know that I'm a very safe space to have that conversation with and I'm more than happy.

It's a massive privilege to be the person that they feel comfortable messaging. But, the idea that I just talk about prolapse, you must have the same thing. Did you ever expect that kind of half of your life to be talking about pelvic floors and prolapses? I used to be really private.

Helen

No, I’m the last person. When I first started, I could barely say like, saying volva or vagina that would  literally make me go red. It's the last thing…

Sophie

I gave out to my mother I was like, how did you not tell me about Pelvic floors shouldn't this be part of my education - and prolapse -like growing up? Shouldn't this be in, like, GCSE biology or kind of our PE lessons or something? And I guess I feel kind of like my daughter would know exactly what a pelvic floor is.

Helen

100%.

Sophie

And if we can be the generation that changes it for our daughters, then we should really try and do that.

Helen

We really should, and we're doing it. And we mentioned investment in public health services - well, I had a really interesting and positive conversation this week about that announcement that the NHS made a while back. This is for England only. And they said they were setting up 14 pelvic health clinics around the country where you'd get specialist doctors, midwives and physios under one roof, and where you could self refer if you were pregnant or if you're a new mum.

And I thought that sounded brilliant. And it is. But actually, it's better than that. I was speaking to someone who's leading one of these projects and it turns out it's not just the clinics, which already actually exist in some areas, but, also money to increase the number of physios, to pay for specialist training for other health workers, for better resources for lots of things and just giving pelvic health a much higher priority. So by 2024, all of that should be available right across the country. But, yeah, I think that sounds brilliant.

I'd love to know what you think so get in touch on social at Why Mums Don't Jump or via the website whymumsdontjump.com.

Sophie Power, very lovely, is @ultra_sophie on instagram And I'll put some links to some of the things we talked about in the show notes. As ever, none of this is intended as medical advice.

If you have an iPhone, please follow the podcast on the Apple podcast.app.  Apparently, it really helps other people to find it.

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Next week, the legend that is: Elaine Miller.