Peace's Story - Episode Transcript

Helen

Hi, I'm Helen, and this is why mums, don't jump. Busting taboos about leaks and lumps after childbirth. All the stuff that happens to your pelvic floor that no one ever talks about. Incontinence, prolapse, pelvic pain problems that affect millions of women, one in three. I'm one of them. I have a prolapse, my pelvic organs and fell out of place after the birth of my second child five years ago. And if you told me then I'd be speaking about this stuff out loud, I would have told you to give your head a wobble.

Helen

Hi and welcome. Thank you for all the feedback on last week's episode, as ever. Thank you. That was the one. Sex with pelvic floor dysfunction. We went there. We did. We really did. And we're still standing. And I'm going to keep on trying to talk about all the things we never talk about because it makes a difference.

I had a message this week that made me think. It was from someone who listened to five episodes in a row and then went through them in detail with a partner. And it made me think that I wanted to say to all the partners who listen or hear about it afterwards, thank you. I think that's absolutely amazing that you are just being there and supporting the women who need that support and help. So, legends, thank you very much for that. Keep doing it.

This week, I'm going to be speaking to someone who also wants to end the stigma around pelvic floor problems. And she is Peace Bailey. She's a mum of two, she's originally from Rwanda, she grew up in the UK and now lives in Spain. She blogs about moving there with her family. And on Instagram, she posts a lot of lovely pictures of sunshiny beaches - which I'm very jealous about - but also about motherhood, about race, about her faith. But she also wrote a really honest account of nighttime incontinence or bed wetting, which she experienced after childbirth. And as soon as I read that, I knew I wanted to speak to her.

Helen

So, Peace, I came across you on Instagram and you kind of stopped me in my tracks a little bit with your post that you'd put up a while back. And, if I can just find it on my computer, do you mind if I read it out?

Peace

No, go ahead.

Helen

Okay, so you'd written 'Labour did a number on me both times. I had a third degree tear, had to be rushed into surgery straight after the birth and needed a catheter. I had two under two. My hair was falling out. I was struggling to control my bladder as I couldn't attend the pelvic floor therapy -you can't bring your baby. I started to wet the bed. Try explaining that to your husband. Very sexy. It's only in the last two years that I've been able to make some changes. Start exercising, squeezing and seeing some results. Please don't suffer in silence like I did, thinking it would get better with time. Asking for help is nothing to be ashamed of.'

I come across so few posts that are as kind of raw and as honest and as open as that one. What was that journey? What was the point at which you realised things weren't as they should be?

Peace

I think I would say it's when I started wetting the bed. Before that, I'd heard from other mothers - oh, it's normal that your bladder gets weaker, you need to use the bathroom more. And for me, it was normal anyway. I don't think my bladder was that strong before I had children because I just get up several times during the night to use the bathroom and so when I realised I've wet the bed, that's when alarm bell started going off, because I thought 'No, first of all, I'm not willing to live like this, but also, what am I going to do?' Because I had no idea how to deal with that. Where do I start? It's something I never expected to happen to me. I never expected to wake up one morning and realise I've wet the bed or wake up at night, even, and have to quickly figure out, how am I going to hide this from my husband? Because how do I explain this?

I don't clearly remember when it happened the first time, but I clearly remember having to cover up, because you can't even change the bed, you can't do anything. But I remember having to quickly think very quickly, right, what can I do to cover this up? Go back to sleep? I don't even know if I managed to go back to sleep because I was embarrassed. I couldn't even go in the shower because it was like three or four in the morning. So I had to crawl back into bed trying to figure out what just happened. How is this happening to me? I'm 31 years old and I'm wetting at the bed. What is this?

Helen

Do you remember the point at which he decided that you were going to come clean? Or was it just so obvious that there was nothing else you could do?

Peace

I don't actually know. I don't remember whether it was obvious. My husband is not the type who would say, 'Er by the way, I know what happened!' No. And so I just remember coming clean and saying, 'Listen, this happened to me. I don't know why, I have no idea. I'm definitely feeling very ashamed about it, I'm going to try and find some solutions.' And so he was just very supportive as he's a really good man.

Helen

And before that, had there been any signs? I mean, I know you said that you had like, a bad...I had a third degree tear as well, only one though, you had two. I know what that's like.

Peace

No, there were no signs because I wasn't one of these women that you know, you sneeze or you cough and something leaks. I didn't have any of that. It just went from a weak bladder to a wet bed. And I found that so extreme. And so I had to then decide, what do I do? And that was the difficult part.

Helen

I mean, what do you do? Like you say, you can...did you go see a doctor straight away or?

Peace

I didn't go to see a doctor. I spoke to one of my best friends who is a doctor and she was just trying to reassure me that it's normal. She sent me a few videos about exercises that I should be doing. But then I found the videos not very helpful because you're not really seeing what they're doing. Yes, they're describing what you should be doing, but it's just not clear enough. For me, I wanted something really dumb proof that said, right, you need to do ABC and then that's how you will strengthen your muscles and then you'll stop wetting your bed. That's what I wanted. But to this day I don't think I have found a video that explains it to me in that way.

Helen

It's really hard, isn't it? I mean, this is one of the whole things about pelvic floor problems. It's all internal. I can't see my pelvic floor muscles. I don't know whether they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. It is really difficult.

Peace

I tried to do the exercises like the video was saying. I also tried to exercise generally and I slowly saw a difference. Maybe I would go a few months and then I would have an accident again. And so I just had to really push myself because this was about having some long term results. I didn't just want to stop wetting my bed, I wanted to have a stronger pelvic floor so that when I'm in my fifties and my sixties, I don't just go straight backwards.

Helen

And did you have any understanding of anything like this before it happened to you? Because certainly for myself and for lots of women that I talk to, it's just like...I knew pelvic floor, sort of, you need to kind of do your squeezes or maybe when you laugh you might have a little bit of leaking or something like that. But that's the level that I understood it. I really had no understanding of how important the pelvic floor was, how to look after it, how it might get damaged, any of that.

Peace

I knew nothing, honestly. And especially because I'm coming from an African background and so there's no way my mother would have talked to me about that. If you heard the talk she had with me about the birds and the bees, you'd be horrified. So there's no way she would have explained the pelvic floor to me. I'm not even sure that she knows what it is herself, because it's just one of those things that would be too taboo too private and just figure it out on your own kind of thing.

Helen

So the other things you talked about in your post, obviously, were the labour and then the difficulty accessing physio because of having a couple of children already. And it's really hard to take babies to physio appointments. Tell me a bit more about that.

Peace

I remember after, when I had my first son, they said, because the NHS, they send you letters, don't they? And they said, we've got you booked in for this session. And I said, okay, well, that's great, but I need to bring my baby. And they said, no, you can't bring babies. My husband is at work, my family lives in Birmingham. I have nobody nearby that can look after my newborn. How do you expect me to attend these sessions?

Helen

Yeah. And so this, presumably, is because you had a bad tear, you automatically get referred for physiotherapy.

Peace

Exactly, yes. And so what they did was they gave me an appointment with a gynaecologist instead. And so they did a little check up to see if I've healed properly. They asked me if I'm squeezing. I said, what on earth is squeezing? What is that all about? And so she tried to explain what I should do and then I tried to do it while she was there and she asked me to hold it for 5 seconds, hold it a bit longer. And so I would say that was probably the only part that sort of helped. Gave me a slight idea of what I should be doing. But that is it. That's where the help finished. I had one appointment finished and that.

Helen

And that was after your first child was born, right?

Peace

Yes.

Helen

Okay, so then number two came less than two years later.

Peace

Same tear, same place.

Helen

Another bad tear?

Peace

Yep

Helen

On your own, then?

Peace

Yes, on my own. They sent me a letter, obviously, asking me to go to physio and I couldn't. Now I've got two of them. I had no time to think about how I'm doing. You've got two children that are relying on you. They're tiny and by the end of the day, you're exhausted, so there's no time to think about your tear. Am I healing? How am I feeling? No, honestly, that's how it was.

Helen

So where are you at with it now? What was the journey? You said you found it really hard to kind of follow videos and understand what to do, but maybe things were improving a little bit?

Peace

So now I try and squeeze. Basically, I squeeze when I can, I squeeze when I remember. I must admit, I am not one of these women that's really good with it and does it every day religiously? No, I'm not going to lie to you. However, I recognise that it does help because I've seen the difference. It's been maybe about a year since I last wet the bed. I don't remember exactly, but I know it's been quite a while.

Helen

It occurred to me that you were both lucky, I guess, but also brave to have called your friend, ask her for help in that situation. I think a lot of people I don't know, maybe you would turn to the internet, go silently on a few forums and have a look around. But really, that is what you need. You need a friend and you need some professional help. So you were lucky and brave to do that.

Peace

To be honest, I don't really understand why, as women we don't talk about it amongst ourselves, because whether you've had a wet bed or not, it's something that we can all relate to. But I think that the root of the silence, the root of us not reaching out is because we are ashamed and we think 'Ew that's gross. I can't talk about that.' That's what I think.

Helen

I think it's so common. Like, the word 'shame' comes up so often on the forums and things. And I think that's a massive part of this, because when you actually get down to it, well, why am I ashamed? It's just a part of my body.

Peace

But I also think the part of the shame and part of the silence is because, again, in this society, we are not encouraged to talk about our bodies. We're not encouraged. It's just not an open topic among among women and your friends. Not really.

Helen

I mean, you seem very relaxed talking about it today with me. Did you have any qualms about opening up that conversation and really, like, revealing some really deep and honest truths about your life at that point?

Peace

No, because I knew if I can get somebody out there to recognise - it's happened to me, and I know it's happened to you, and that's okay. You can get through this. That was my point. That was the purpose of my post.

Helen

And now how would you say that you're doing? You've got a six-year-old and a four-year-old. How are you? Are you well? How are you?

Peace

Definitely. I feel like I'm well, I feel like I'm squeezing more than I have before. I still you know, there are times when when I'm in bed and I think, 'Oh, I need to get up. I need to get up and use the bathroom', because there's still that possibility in my mind. I don't want to have a wet bed again.

Helen

What would you say to women who might be listening to this and I guess might have just found themselves at this point where their body is just not doing what they need it to be doing right now? Maybe their babies are really young, maybe they've only just started having accidents or something has happened. Like, what advice would you have for women who have just found themselves in this position?

Peace

I would say this is so important to deal with. This is not something you can brush under the carpet. It's not going to go away. You will need to prioritise yourself, your health, in order for it to get better. You deserve to have a functioning body. This is not something that you need to put up with and live with. No. Do not think that one day it will go away with you doing nothing. You will have to put in the work. You deserve to just live a normal life.

Helen

Yeah. Aw it's so inspiring to hear you say things like that...because sometimes I'm like, I end up in a bit of an echo chamber I suppose because of what I do and the people that I follow on Instagram and everyone's like, yeah, we're going to talk about this. Yeah, people should go out and get help. We've got physio standing by to help people and it feels really inspiring. Things are changing. And then I come out of that world a little bit and I'm just like, no, still, nobody is talking about this. Still, we are not teaching our daughters about this. Still the schools are not teaching us about pelvic floors. How hopeful are you that things are changing?

Peace

I'm very hopeful. I'm very hopeful. Because if we keep talking about this, whether it's in a small way or a big way, just as long as we don't stay quiet, if we keep talking, I believe that the change will come. And it goes back to what you just said. We've got to teach our children about it, because, remember, the primary education is at home. As the mothers and the fathers, we are the first teachers. And so if we can teach our daughters, if we can teach our sons even, and I feel very strongly about this, boys need to know what a pelvic floor is. They need to understand what happens to a woman when she goes through labour. And I'm one of these mothers - I feel for my sons because they got to know way too much - but I think it's essential to educate our children not just about the basic things and the things that are expected of them, but the things that will happen that nobody wants to talk about.

Helen

Yeah, I really want to hear your mum's birds and bee story.

Peace

No, you don't. It was very short. And utterly useless!

Helen

I still want to know what that story was. Who knows what our kids are going to say about us? Eek, don't think about it!

You can follow Peace on Instagram @baileysinspain, which is B-A-I-L-E-Y-S. Baileys in Spain. That's all one word.

Next time, it's something that comes up a lot for women with pelvic floor problems, particularly with prolapse - having another baby. I'll be speaking to the pelvic health physio Claire Bourne, who has a prolapse and has had another baby, and who is fabulous on all things pelvic floor. So I'd really recommend checking out her Instagram, which is @clarebournephysio. Bourne is B-O-U-R-N-E.

You've been listening to Why Mums Don't Jump with me, Helen Ledwick. I am not a medical professional, so please don't take anything you hear as medical advice, but do get involved. Follow the podcast, post a review, tell me what you think, and spread the word on every group and every forum you're in. You can find me on Instagram @whymumsdontjump or online at whymumsdontjump.com. Bye for now!